| falloutsyndrome | you've got a lawsuit man, small claims, they'll send you a check instead of going to court |
| msludwick | i want to hear the rest |
 | warndog9 | hat a joke.. how pathetic. 38,000 * .002c = 76c 38,000 * $.002 = $76 LIKE TERMS A**HOLES!  |
| winrosenfeld | How did this turn out? |
 | gordon | wow these guys are REALLY dumb.... but thats why they work in a call center. |
 | simonjester | Oh, the humanity... I want to kow what happened afterwards! And Andrea? She leaves her number towrds the end of the call. Her mailbox is full though! |
| sanguiness | Sounds like a class action lawsuit to me =) |
| sanguiness | GOOGLE: ".002 cents * 35893" |
| h8edmu8ic | please tell me that you got this straightent out! tell them to try google (like sanguiness)!!!!!!! arg i hate idiots. |
| georgevaccaro | From George: I'm still waiting for someone competent at Verizon to contact me - goog for my blog if you want more details - no links allowed here  |
 | 32boater | I wish this got put into the media to show how stupid and incompetent these Verizon employees are. Floor managers who are stuck on basic math?? C'mon. |
| fullcourt | yawn.... |
| tjsingleton | this would be a fun linkbomb  |
| tjsingleton | George -- if your interested in promoting this some more google VantageStreet and use the contact form |
| gordon | great post! |
 | ooseven | Dude you're getting all confused by their bad maths!!! 0.002c = $0.00002 which is not 2/1000 of a dollar but 2/10000 of a dollar! I say bring back the old £/s/d, that should confuse the crap out of them.  |
| ooseven | Whoops not enough 0s there... if 1c = 1/100 of a dollar. Then 0.002c = 2/1000 of a dollar. Which is equal to $0.00002 = 2/100000 of a dollar! That's two one-hundred-thousandth of a dollar! Obviously as a cent is one hundredth of a dollar. |
| sprint38 | well. is it .002 cents or .002 OF A cent? b/c if it is .002 cents then it is .2 of a cent. but if it is .002 OF A cent that is .00002 cents which would make 71 cents. but if it was .002 cents it would be 71 dollars |
| bradyok | This was funny, and worth the time listening to it. I was sitting here and like throwing a fit at how stupid they are. |
 | natemel | Wow, sprint38, do you work in a call center??? You sound EXACTLY like them!!! |
| ctasasin | Also, I listened to it a second time... It does sound like you could have explained better but still... Frick, I'd smack those people upside the head. |
| sprint38 | im 15 and i race a sprint car haha nope i dont work in the call center. I say it was both of there faults. the guy for... being the guy and verizon for being a dumbass. lets all listen to that one chick. it was the computers fault! |
 | dxoldman | My wife quit Verizon because she said they were idiots. I just didn't realize it was this bad. |
 | momo2006 | Make it simpler for their simple minds: GOOGLE ".002 cents per kilobyte * 35893 kilobytes". |
| yelliez | wooow. Let us know how this worked out. I was sitting here getting worked up and it wasn't even me on the line with them. Good job keeping your cool. I wouldn't have been able to control myself. |
 | quarky42 | Sprint38, there is no difference between .002 cents and .002 OF a cent. Either way you are taking .002 and multiplying it by a penny. The word OF is not a special math operator. |
| quarky42 | I hope you take this to court. Stupidity this bad should be held accountable. |
| neverlandrocka | my god...how in the world did u keep from swearing at them!? lol...u have a looot of patience my friend |
| neverlandrocka |  that would be my state of being in this situation |
| dadxer | Like the caller says,it's an issue of terminology.Chances are their screens read "$.002".Because of the decimal,they automatically SAY cents,when mathematically it 2 thousandths of a dollar,not of a cent.I don't know why the reps can't see the issue. |
| tulane87 | unbelievable. how stupid are these people at verizon? how did this end up? |
| matxtx | I just tried to call Andrea at 888.581.1070 ext 2234 and it's an invalid number. Wonder if she gave out the wrong information again, or if they had to change her number due to all the calls telling her what a dumba$$ she sounded like. |
 | rhoonah | That is totally amazing. I have never seen such stupidity. I mean .02 cents = .0002 dollars. How is that so hard? Perhaps my engineering degree helps me understand it. |
| rhoonah | And I'd love to hear how it was all resolved. I would have told them to cancel my account and that I was refusing to pay the bill until they hired someone with more than a 3rd grade math education |
| chuckydamandude | please post if this got resolved, I'm speechless.....I think I'll call Andrea and give her a hard time! 888-581-1070 x 2234 |
| georgevaccaro | google "verizonmath" to find the latest status... |
| nerdish | wow...i work at vzw cust service this is so embarassing... wow... |
| nerdish | wow...i work at vzw cust service this is so embarassing... wow... |
 | worstnightmare | Why don't you tell us us about your call history? They've clearly refunded you before and are unwilling to do so again as it's now clear you're a scammer. STFU, dipshit. |
| worstnightmare | Why don't you tell us us about your call history? They've clearly refunded you before and are unwilling to do so again as it's now clear you're a scammer. STFU, dipshit. |
| georgevaccaro | worstnightmare - is that directed at me? if it is you clearly don't know what you're talking about. |
| worstnightmare | I do know that you've now got some poor girl's phone number on the Internet for self-aggrandizement. You're at the very least a mean-spirited person and from that I can infer a manipulator and a lyer. |
| georgevaccaro | It was that poor girl's job to resolve customer issues. Her company has since apologized on her behalf. Were it not for including her # the issue might not have gotten resolved. By the way, its spelled "liar." |
 | denisp | George, you're an intelligent, articulate and very very patient man. You'll always have detractors like these DODO (worstnightmame) and (sprint38). They're probably ex-employes of Verizon! If you were a lawer I'd hire you on the spot. Chapeau to you. |
| brettday | worstnightmare is obviously either a troll or else doesn't understand the situation. They repeated you quoted a price that one hundred times cheaper than what they bill for; that's their mistake and they need to fix it. |
| brettday | Whatever your call history is, it isn't germaine to the fact that they screwed up. Besides, given Verizon's performance here, I'm inclinded to believe that every thing in the call history was also solely Verizon's fault. |
 | statman | you're a scammer. They are simply reading thier computers and seeing $0.002 per kilobyte. You know the only way to pronounce it is ".002 cents" It would be insane to pronounce it $0.002 DOLLARS!" You are a scammer and i hope you end up paying it! |
| statman | i even hope they go back and charge you back the other amounts you've managed to scam. It's people like you that end up tying up the courts with frivilous suits that cost us more money. |
| georgevaccaro | great comments statman - they really speak to your intelligence. |
| duh37 | George, I think that if you GRADUALLY added decimal places to your hypothetical figures in your analogies, the uneducated Verizon reps may have seen their mistake. Nonetheless, please sue these people. |
 | koals28 | please stop learning your math off video games you moron, obviously you were sick the day we taught SIMPLE math in school |
| koals28 | if you take .002 * 35893 which you used and that is in thousands you freak you got charged correctly 71.79 |
| koals28 | if you want to pay 2.00 for the same 35893 kilobytes of usage then yes please pay them $71,786 dollars im sure the users listening to you would like their bonus |
| koals28 | You are an idiot. |
| georgevaccaro | @koals28, i cant figure out what you are saying, but if you're saying im wrong, then you are just plain wrong, and you are the one that must have skipped class. |
| georgevaccaro | @koals28: .002 cents/KB * 35,893 KB = 0.71786 U.S. dollars. Google it moron. |
| d1x1e | the level of shockingly poor math by your detractors is appalling. Look folks TOTAL COST = cost pet unit X total units. in other words total *CENTS* = CENTS/unit X total UNITS |
| d1x1e | now cost per unit = 0.002 cents and units = 35893kb so 0.002C/kb X 35893kb = 71.786 CENTS or 0.718 DOLLARS |
| koals28 | seriously were you dropped on your head as a baby... im not kidding are you fu**ing retarded or something because in basic metric system there is no .002 DOLLARS!!!!! |
| koals28 | the decimal point is proving that going backwards is CENTS ..... what kind of math mathematician are you??? and please tell me you have a job lifting crap vs. dividing crap!!!!! |
| koals28 | oh and have a 'fabulous' day..... getting what you consider ''ripped off"....freak |
 | sparemenone | koals28, It's one thing to be dumb but to get on here and prove it is golden. |
| georgevaccaro | @sparemeone - I can delete koals28's comments, but that would be letting him off too easy. @koals28, feel free to keep expressing yourself, it says quite a bit about your intelligence. |
| dolphin44 | koals28, man you are dumb! (.002 / 100) * 35 893 = 0.71786 - rounds to $0.72 or 72 cents. You either have to add the word cents when you Google it, or divide by 100. It's pretty simple man. |
 | jago668 | Here is the thing koals28. The equation is being done in cents, so the end answer comes out in cents (not dollars). Just like when you multiply by feet the answer comes out in feet not miles. |
 | themoronmajority | Man, this is soooo discouraging. I agree gv - our education system is failing us. I've had almost identical conversations with other phone cos. |
| themoronmajority | Here's a fun thing to do - go to any retail establishment and if the total is $2.87 give the guy a $5 bill and two pennies (change = $2.15) and see the "deer in the headlight" look you get. This is just a symptom of a bigger problem... |
 | amir8822 | Let me begin by saying I commend you for your patients with these people. I would like to think I am a patient person but I have to say I would of lost it at some point there. However I also have to say you had the most confusing way of explaining your |
| amir8822 | situation to the Verizon reps. People make mistakes with large fractions on paper so don’t expect people to get it over the phone. Also you kept emphasizing the rate they were charging you vs. the rate they were quoting you, when they agreed you should b |
| amir8822 | be getting charged .002 cents which you have on record many many many times so stop arguing about what the rate is or should be. Instead you should have focused on simplifying the mathematical mistake made on your bill because the rate was not being |
| amir8822 | disputed by the reps; they just simply didn’t understand the math. I know you don’t need anymore reassurance at this point but you can’t be more right about this. To put it in laminas terms for people how may have difficulty understanding the situation |
| amir8822 | and that includes especially koals28 here it is. At the rate of .002 cents you can multiply .002 cents x 500 = 1 cent, keep in mind 500 represents the amount of kilobytes therefore he should be getting charged 1 cent per 500 kilobytes as a result of this |
| amir8822 | 35893 / 500 = 71.786 cents and I emphasize cents not 71 dollars and .786 cents don’t let the decimal fool you. I think that is the simplest way of explaining this, and if you don’t understand this koals28 may god help you because I don’t think anyone can |
| amir8822 | Also George If you still need help settling this please let me to know. |
| georgevaccaro | amir, did you listen to the call? if i couldnt get them to see the difference between $.002 and .002¢ how could I get them to recalculate the amont correctly? |
| zin-roc | I havent laughed that hard in a while! |
| zin-roc | Koals28 ... have no words to descripe the level of ignorence and stupid you have shown |
| zin-roc | Anyway a way I would think to get through to them is this example. Assume $1=1m and 1cent=1cm. Then theoreticly pretend you were paying .002cm of gum per killibyte. Then ask her "how many cm of gum do I owe you" and she would say 71.786cm of gum. |
| zin-roc | And since cm = cents then you owe them 71.786 cm or 71.786 cents |
| zin-roc | If you make another call record it again please, |
| zin-roc | If you make another call record it again please, |
| zin-roc | If you make another call record it again please, |
 | hate-vzw | I'll vouch for George... was quoted .002 cents per MEGAbyte, which I thought was pretty low, so I said it must be .2 cents per megabyte (reasonable). Rep apologized and agreed. Got my first bill and found we were both wrong. Got credit for $59 charge. |
| hate-vzw | and...as a veteran of numerous VZW wars over the last 10 years, the only "scammers" are the lawyers who sit at their corporate HQ and devise new ways of screwing their customers... |
| akuwelkin | Is Koals28 a Verizon employee? |
| james999 | Have the same problem= Try to get them to understand that 24 monthly payments is completion of a two year contract.!!!!! they threatened to take it to court and I told them to go ahead and I will make sure it is on the national news how stupid they are! |
| james999 | Lets all call her ext. # and tell her how we feel about Verizon |
| bpaiser | Wow!-I commend you on your patience!! I think i would have TRIED simplifying it to 1cent and then ask...how can .002cents cost more than 1 cent would?! Stupid people!!  |
 | 10acboy | Wow!!! It seems so simple to me. Koals28 is certainly showing his ignorance. This is clearly a systemic error, and the Verizon representatives assumed you to be wrong. They should have LISTENED to you! Good luck!!! Let us know how it turns out. |
| 10acboy | Come on Koals28 ... Apples and Oranges! .002 dollars is not the same as .002 cents |
| songsongsong | haha koals is actually right..... |
| songsongsong | the problem here is more about how the verizon guy quoted the price over the phone. check it out... they are charging $0.002/kb. thats 0.002 dollars, or 1/5 of a cent. therefore, your bill should be $71. the problem is how they said the price. |
| songsongsong | if u read something that says it costs 0.99 cents, does that mean its 99/1000ths of a cent, or 99/100ths of a dollar? the problem is no one calls 0.99 cents "point 99 cents" |
| songsongsong | if u read something that says it costs 0.99 cents, does that mean its 99/1000ths of a cent, or 99/100ths of a dollar? the problem is no one calls 0.99 cents "point 99 cents" |
 | hobbs2012 | songsongsong: the problem with that analogy is the fact that there is no fundamental way to verbally transfer 0.002cents into a spoken number with out including the decimal, (besides saying “two thousandths of a cent”). |
| hobbs2012 | In order to read 0.002cents you must say "point zero zero two cents" which is describing fractions of a cent. No one reads 99cents “point 99 cents” because the “point 99” part refers to the DOLLAR amount and not the cent amount. |
| hobbs2012 | If you wanted to say 99cents in units of cents then you would say “ninety nine cents” because $0.99 represents ninety nine units of cent. “point 99 cents” doesn’t even equal up to one cent (one point zero cents). |
| hobbs2012 | You are confusing number and words here, so are the Verison people. If that hasn’t confused you then follow this like a word problem from grade school. |
| hobbs2012 | If it cost George 0.002 cents to use one KB, and George uses 35,893 KB. Then how many CENTS dose George owe? Your equation would be: {(0.002cents/1KB)*35,893KB=} the KB’s cancel out, leaving only CENTS, thus the answer is 71.786 CENTS |
| hobbs2012 | . Which in turn equals 0.71786Dollars, if you use the conversion that 1 dollar = 100 cents. |
| hobbs2012 | There’s no way around the fact that the Verison reps simply did not carry the correct units throughout there entire math problem. And in turn could not translate between money and math. $0.01 is one cent in terms of dollars. |
| hobbs2012 | One cent in terms of cents is simply 1¢. Plain and simple, there is no way around this math. If any of that is incorrect then please explian it in civil terms and don't just call me a moron. and I'm a college student, not 15, i can do the math. |
| georgevaccaro | Thanks Hobbs2012 - I didn't have the energy. Scary too... |
| kuhawk | New T-idea. I graduated from the University of Kansas and the math department there has a remedial-non credit course for people who did not have a high enough math ACT score, The class is numbered Math 002-pre-algebra, and affectionately referred to as |
| kuhawk | New T-idea. I graduated from the University of Kansas and the math department there has a remedial-non credit course for people who did not have a high enough math ACT score, The class is numbered Math 002-pre-algebra, and affectionately referred to as |
 | liquidglass | lol WTF how do they not understand....it's 2/1000 of a Cent so that means you need 998 more .002's to make 1 cent....retarded people. |
| liquidglass | George good job on catching that man, most people just overlook things and go straight to the price of the bill. |
| liquidglass | People like Statman and Koal are employees of verizon and the people who wrote the program the managers are using and just reading off the screen rather than doing their own math. |
| emlu3 | wow i am speechless.... .002 dollars = .002 cents? LOL OMG |
| karb0ner | tell them to divide .002(cents) by 100(cents) to convert cents to dollars. .002/100=.00002 then multiply that by 35,xxx. I think that would be a better way of explaining it to them. |
| karb0ner | nevermind, i see that you tried to do that. Idiots, all of them |
| k9unit23 | .002 dollars is written .002; .002 cents is written as .00002. I AM A MATHEMATICIAN. Kohls, you need to learn simple math before posting ignorance like that. .002 means 2 tenths of a cent. .00002 means 2 one-thousanths of a cent, which is what was quoted |
| k9unit23 | So, when quoted 'point zero zero 2 cents per KB' (or .00002 in money terms), that shows that the bill should be .71786, or 71786 one-hundred thosanths of a dollar, or rounded - 72 cents |
 | john20202 | If ignorance is bliss, than Kohls is one happy guy! |
 | kon20000 | Suppose you charge .002 peanuts instead of cents. How many peanuts do I owe you? 71.7 peanuts? OK. Lets say I owe you 72 peanuts. Wait. You charge cents, not peanuts. I owe you 72 cents. Please correct my bill. Thank you. |
| jinjack | let say 1 apple = 1 cent, if i sold 10 apples x 1 cent = 10 dollars, wow i'm getting rich here |
 | pakrat | I think kohls is going based off of what the bill actually says "$.002" (.002 dollars). But, the reps are SAYING "cents". This is funny, but the guy here played a word game against minimum wage employees. |
| gwile | The proper way to read "$0.002" is "two-tenths of a cent" or "point zero zero two Dollars." They need to train their employees to use the correct language. They shouldn't quote one price and charge another, both should be the same. |
| gwile | They are reading “$0.002” and lapsing into saying “point zero zero two cents” because the number is in a cent number column. However, that Dollar sign before the zero dictates you are in (and must say) Dollars, not cents. |
 | javid | Just to add fuel to the fire, your US data plan is not unlimited even though it is advertised as such. 5GB/month is the limit, break it and see what happens  |
 | becken | LOL Funny, if checking this post in AUS, u get a link on the side that reads: "Wanting a Maths Program?" Maybe they should get it  |
| b1g5tud | The way that I would have explained it is that .002 cents means that you need 500 kb to make just 1 penny. You have approx. 70 times that amount making approx 70 pennies or sense |
| lbadten | @Pakrat - Shame, shame. Judging people based on their wages. Ultimately a multi-million dollar earning enterprise hired these people specifically to deal with these issues. Rate X Usage = Fee. |
| lbadten | Pretty simple really. I am amazed that this much discussion and opinion has resulted. |
| lbadten | George, uou have the patience of a saint. |
 | sofiagadea | "there is no .002 DOLLARS!!!!!" from koals28, just like andrea. Btw, i asked my brother to see if george was right, and he goes to MIT, he couldnt stop laughing at verizon |
 | kgregoryb | ($0.01 = 1 cent) so 2 thousandths of a cent would look like ($0.00002 = 2 thousandths of a cent) so now go and take .00002 times 35893 you get a number and that number is .71786.(note the number never got large enough to go past the decimal) Now bring back the zero and the dollar sign and it looks like $0.71786. I guess if you round up you should pay 72 cents or $0.72. It comes down to the label, he was told cents, but what they really meant was dollars. Verizon should still take fault for giving him a false quote on the rate of kb usage in Canada. |
| popper1 | 71 Bucks for 35Mbs? That hurts..... but hold on.........
mmmmmmm.......
or was that 35Gbs?  |
| blueskies469 | It isn't really a "catch" on his part. It is him uses Verizon's words against them. As a former Verizon rep, I can say that reps and supervisors DO NOT get adequate training when it comes to data usage and their relative charges. They simply put numbers in front of us and had us quote them, w/o explanation. It's obvious that the first person saw $.002 and assumed cents becuz it has a decimal point and it was NOT explained to them to say dollars. I worked there for 4yrs and never once said .002 dollars; I've always said cents. Fortunately, I didn't get the wise guy like this to play it off to his advantage. However, if I were to have gotten this call, I would have at least offered to credit half, but if not acceptable, then would have just credited the whole thing. Since ".002 CENTS" is now in writing, Verizon would have lost this suit, having spent more money in legal fees in the end. |
 | fs740 | reading those comments was fun....and some were just hilarious...which proves there are stupid ppl all around us....these ppl should go back to school and learn the basics...just what was mentioned above..like terms....Xcents gives an answer in cents..Xdollars gives an answer in dollars.,..Verizon...so eassy a caveman can do it  |
| fs740 | songsongsong....$.99 does not equal C.99
.99 cents...which is zero point ninety nice cents rounds up to be= 1.0 cents...some of those dumb ppl are all genetically connected to Bush! |
| storm_surge | I'm afraid YOU were the one dropped on your head as a baby, koals28. |
| rikeje | You need to sue these people for misrepresenting the price to you. Seriously, take this to court. At the very least, they'll be forced to follow strict rules about how their employees quote prices.
Here's the most succinctly I can put it:
.002 is a number. when you multiply that number by 35,895, you get the number 71.79. now let's try putting those numbers in front of some units.
.002 apples x 35,893 = 71.79 apples.
.002 dollars x 35,893 = 71.79 dollars.
.002 cents x 35,893 = 71.79 cents.
So if they want to charge 71.79 DOLLARS, then they have to quote .002 DOLLARS.
If however they quote .002 CENTS, then they can only charge 71.79 CENTS.
The problem is that the company doesn't list units, but the unit is actually always in dollars.
So, 1.00 = 1.00 dollar
.50 = .50 dollars (which we normally call fifty cents - not POINT fifty cents, mind you)
and .002 = .002 dollars (which can also be called "point two cents")
So, the employees should be required to follow strict rules that the only word they can insert after a figure that they read is "dollars" because to say "cents" would require a decimal change that is apparently beyond their capabilities. |
| rikeje | quote from statman:
"you're a scammer. They are simply reading thier computers and seeing $0.002 per kilobyte. You know the only way to pronounce it is ".002 cents" It would be insane to pronounce it $0.002 DOLLARS!" You are a scammer and i hope you end up paying it!"
and you actually have the nerve to call yourself "statman"?!!! you're a schmuck, and if you have a job where you're required to "pronounce" .002, then to pronounce it as ".002 dollars" is false advertising., plain and simple. .002 cents would be written as ".00002". end of story. |
| rikeje | quote from koals88:
"seriously were you dropped on your head as a baby... im not kidding are you fu**ing retarded or something because in basic metric system there is no .002 DOLLARS!!!!!"
where the hell do you people get this crap. that sentence is so LOL that it isn't even funny! |
| rikeje | quote from blueskies469:
"It isn't really a "catch" on his part. It is him uses Verizon's words against them. As a former Verizon rep, I can say that reps and supervisors DO NOT get adequate training when it comes to data usage and their relative charges. They simply put numbers in front of us and had us quote them, w/o explanation. It's obvious that the first person saw $.002 and assumed cents becuz it has a decimal point and it was NOT explained to them to say dollars. I worked there for 4yrs and never once said .002 dollars; I've always said cents. Fortunately, I didn't get the wise guy like this to play it off to his advantage. However, if I were to have gotten this call, I would have at least offered to credit half, but if not acceptable, then would have just credited the whole thing. Since ".002 CENTS" is now in writing, Verizon would have lost this suit, having spent more money in legal fees in the end."
You may not have been trained well, but that doesn't mean you're not still wrong. Georgevaccaro isn't a "wise guy playing it off his advantage"., He's just someone who got lied to and is trying to right the situation. I'm behind him 100% and think that we should all start doing what he's doing in order to keep these crooked companies and their incompetent employees in line. If you've made the same mistakes as these other employees, then you shouldn't be defending your actions. Instead, you should be apologizing. |
| liable | Blueskies, the problem is that- despite the natural error given most of the representatives' level of training- George was billed a fee 100 TIMES the price he was quoted. Language-wise, the difference between $0.002 and 0.002 cents may not seem obvious, but when people are trading significant resources for services, that discrepancy is utterly significant. $71 may not be a big thing to you... but what if you were talking about a case where he had transferred 1,000,000 kilobytes? Or 10 million? What if this inaccuracy involved an interest rate on a loan for $250,000?
At some point you have to admit that companies have to be responsible for advertising correctly. With that "small slip-up" you can easily lose someone a tank of gas... groceries for a week... your full internet/tv bill. It is only worse when those differences go unnoticed by the customer and he/she blissfully pays their "dues" because they were irresponsible with their financing, as it seems you are suggesting from everyone here. It certainly isn't everyone else's responsibility to gauge the validity of your rates and "read between the lines" when they have no prior experience with it. In George's case, he has been accustomed to an unlimited plan and claims to not find either $71 or 71 cents for his usage unrealistic with no prior knowledge of rates, which I fully believe given I personally would have no clue prior to reading this story. |
| liable | Also, as far as "reading between the lines", it may be reasonable to ask people to interpret a quote such as "0.002 cents" to ACTUALLY mean "$0.002", based on the fact that (sadly) a large majority of people would probably do so (incorrectly) given the language quirks. However- if someone such as George actually takes the time to verify and distinguish the difference between a $0.002 quote and 0.002 cent quote, and furthermore apply it in notes/writing/record, then you are fully and completely giving up your rights to later claim you were not speaking in the same language, and thus you are bound to the promise you made.
A simple fact of life is that when you make "special" promises you are obligated to abide by them. I might retract that a little and say it may not be a fact of life everywhere in the world, but it certainly is in America, and should become more concrete instead of laxed as the business world grows.
George should have simply been able to reach someone competent enough to adjust his bill, and if the company wishes to be successful and accurate in the growing corporate world, the computer scripts should have been clarified immediately, if not long before there was ever a problem. That suggestion is even disregarding the one of hiring employees that know their math, which are honestly more and more difficult to come by in this age. |
| vinotto | George, good for you for attempting to hold Verizon responsible for its careless money unit mix-up. Naza lost the Mars Polar Lander which crashed on Mars because of simple metric Vs English units mix-up in one bad line of software.
|
 | mlkewang | When i was listening it through, though it seems like you have the problem fixed already, I thought of doing this example. Forget that cents ever existed, and we only have dollars going around. Though they won't believe it, tell them to make a hypothetical situation where their rate is $0.002/KB. Then tell them to write $0.002 down, along with " x 35893 = 71.79. " And now ASK them, "Is the 71.79 DOLLARS OR CENTS?" Since cents don't exist and never played a part in the math, and you made them explicitly write the DOLLAR SIGN next to 0.002, then it must be dollars. As long as they recognize a difference between 0.002 cents and 0.002 dollars, they should also recognize that the answer cannot be 71.79 dollars for BOTH rates: 0.002 dollars/KB and 0.002 cents/KB. Basically, it isn't possible to arrive at the same answer for both their quoted rate and the hypothetical rate. Hope this is useful. |
| mlkewang | I really like rikeje's example, by the way, and one more thing, thanks for the 30mn of priceless entertainment. |
| goss-orcas | The TSA (Transp. Safety Admin.) apparently uses Verizonmath. On ABC-TV's 20/20 for Dec. 14, while discussing airplane luggage theft, etc. they mentioned that 273 or so agents had been fired for theft. The TSA spokesman then bragged that out of a staff of 100,000 this represented "less than three one thousands of one percent" of the staff, rather than the more accurate less than 3/10 of one percent! |
| madpanic336 | well they did say .002 Cent not .002 of a Cent if you put it in fraction it would be .2/100 cent not .002/1 cent
They use Cent as term for not just saying .002 of a dollar, they say .002 cent.
Miss communication. |
| insanepostman | ..how did this comment list go on for so long? this isnt even an argument, george is absolutely right. there is no debate. there is no exception. and anyone who things otherwise should go take some remedial math classes at a community college or something because i think they might even cover these basic principles there. |
| insanepostman | thinks* otherwise |
| ichbineinberliner | This recording is both incredibly hilarious and sad, as is this comment board. I can't decide what's sadder - the ignorance of several Verizon employees, or the adamant stupidity of some commenters like statman or koals88. Koals88: it is both incorrect and misleading to quote "$.002" as ".002 cents" (a. there is a dollar symbol, not a cent symbol, and b. is $.01 pronounced ".01 cents"?). Not only that, but George gave the original salesperson the opportunity to correct him or herself by asking to clarify that the rate was indeed .002 cents/kilobyte as opposed to .002 dollars/kilobyte and the sales rep still got it wrong!
I graduated from college with a degree in physics and a minor in math and I currently teach 8th grade math to a group of inner-city DC kids, many of whom enter the grade 1-2 or even 3 grade levels behind proficiency-wise in both math and reading. Not only would virtually every one of my students be able to correctly solve .002 cents/kilobyte * 35,893 kilobytes equals 71.786 cents (not dollars), but it doesn't appear that any one of the Verizon employees with whom George spoke would be able to pass my - I say again - 8TH GRADE math class |
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